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End the filibuster?

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Boanerges
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End the filibuster?

Filibuster reform necessary for Senate

 

The election of Republican Scott Brown to the U.S. Senate seat long held by Ted Kennedy brought renewed attention to the importance of a 60-vote Senate majority, since Brown now becomes the 41st Republican senator. Yet the Founding Fathers never intended the Senate to require 60 votes for approval of controversial legislation. Through abuse of the process known as filibuster, that’s exactly what has happened.

Traditionally, a filibuster was a technique by which senators took advantage of a Senate rule that requires 60 votes to close debate. It was used rarely and required that the lawmaker who was engaged in the filibuster actually hold the Senate floor indefinitely, through interminable speech-making.

In the past decade, however, the practice has become so commonplace that the threat of a filibuster is sufficient to stall any legislation. We have become a nation in which a super-majority is required to get anything done, contrary to the fundamental concept of majority rule that underlies the Constitution.

Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, plans to introduce legislation that would enable a majority vote to close debate. Even though the bill has little chance of passage, Harkin deserves credit for bringing the matter to the floor. In a Jan. 4 letter to his colleagues, he noted that filibusters were used just once per Congress in the 1950s, compared to 139 in the last session.


So what do you all think? Should we stop it?

I like it. but then again I would be perfectly happy if they never showed up on the Senate floor.

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Re: End the filibuster?

Lets just do away with Congress and go to local electronic voting by the citizens!

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Re: End the filibuster?

I like that!

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"There is nothing more permanent than a "temporary" government program"
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one...."
-- James Madison, letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792

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Re: End the filibuster?

AstuteObserver wrote:

Lets just do away with Congress and go to local electronic voting by the citizens!

 

I very adamantly disagree

 

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

--Thomas Jefferson

 

Our Founding Fathers knew what the fuck they were doing, what's wrong with just going back to what they established and demanding those in power adhere to the rule of law? Taz

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Re: End the filibuster?

This one is a no-brainer. ANYTHING that ties up our legislative process should be considered illegal. That's not what we voted for.

 

I'm actually for AO's suggestion. The American public needs to be better informed and involved. That is clearly not happening today. We should also put ankle bracelets on every house and senate member, so that we can track them wherever they go. Maybe with the same type of control in which they exercise over us will cause them to come to the realization of the great disconnect they have caused.

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Re: End the filibuster?

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

Very powerful statement there and to date I see nothing that has proven itself to even come close to the close to perfection of the U.S. Constitution.  The only thing I see is that the problem is we don't demand adherence to that so called "out dated document".  That my friends is the core of the problem.

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Re: End the filibuster?

Rejection of the Constitution is not what I am encouraging - just getting rid of Congress as it is currently structured.  Given the state of technology and personal identification sophistication I believe we can safely re-structure voting and representation systems.  More specifically those systems that were designed to address the geographical limitations for gathering the citizens collectively to vote.  The electoral college is an example that comes to mind.  Congress too could be re-structured to reflect the citizens more immediate input via technology and therefore greatly reduce the power/corruption of  their agents in D.C. 


The one big and it is a real big issue with re-structuring government is what the hell do we do with all the unemployed idiots as government shrinks?

 

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Re: End the filibuster?

AstuteObserver wrote:

Rejection of the Constitution is not what I am encouraging - just getting rid of Congress as it is currently structured.  Given the state of technology and personal identification sophistication I believe we can safely re-structure voting and representation systems.  More specifically those systems that were designed to address the geographical limitations for gathering the citizens collectively to vote.  The electoral college is an example that comes to mind.  Congress too could be re-structured to reflect the citizens more immediate input via technology and therefore greatly reduce the power/corruption of  their agents in D.C. 

The one big and it is a real big issue with re-structuring government is what the hell do we do with all the unemployed idiots as government shrinks?

Again go back to my post, especially with what I quoted from Jefferson -

 

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

--Thomas Jefferson

 

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Re: End the filibuster?

The US Constitution is a great document, yet it was not perfect and for that reason it has been amended throughout its history.  The authors left it open and flexible so it could be amended to reflect the prevailing attitudes, values, etc. of the majority of citizens.  As such it became a living breathing document of sorts - always changing.  It is the political systems within the governing bodies that have gone out to left field.  I am not sure what the answer is or if there even is an answer regarding how do we preserve the Constitution becasue that would require a consensus on where to punctuate the document for the restart!  My guess is that eventually the complete system will fail and then an opportunity to rewrite a new Constitution may be presented.  Although I have my doubts about ever reaching a consensus on anything anymore in this world other than agreeing that humans have come to a crossroad in their social and plotiical evolution - which path we take remains to be seen.

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Re: End the filibuster?

The brilliance of our Founding Fathers is shown by how the Constitution can be amended, not easily as to avoid "Fads" but carefully.

They knew that government is inherently corrupt and is the enemy of freedom and liberty, the near perfection is the Constitution not being a document of the rights of the people but as the ONLY rights that government has.

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Re: End the filibuster?

I'd hate to see this thread end here. This IS a good discussion and merits further thought.

 

Pagan brings up a great point. How much rights is our government supposed to have? How is that currently defined? I know of MANY laws that usurp these rights. That is the problem that we currently live in today. We as citizens need to reclaim these rights and hold the politicians accountable while we still have the rights to do so. If not, those (rights) will also be taken away.

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Re: End the filibuster?

Mysandrist Fool wrote:

This one is a no-brainer. ANYTHING that ties up our legislative process should be considered illegal. That's not what we voted for.

 

I'm actually for AO's suggestion. The American public needs to be better informed and involved. That is clearly not happening today. We should also put ankle bracelets on every house and senate member, so that we can track them wherever they go. Maybe with the same type of control in which they exercise over us will cause them to come to the realization of the great disconnect they have caused.

 

"The American public needs to be better informed and involved". This is the major problem with this country today. People don't take the time of find out what is going on. People use the excuse that my vote doesn't count, or it doesn't affect me. This country is the way it is today, not because of the Dems or the Repubs, but because of the  people that have allowed the elected officials of do as they please.

 

 

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Re: End the filibuster?

Pagan wrote:

The brilliance of our Founding Fathers is shown by how the Constitution can be amended, not easily as to avoid "Fads" but carefully.

They knew that government is inherently corrupt and is the enemy of freedom and liberty, the near perfection is the Constitution not being a document of the rights of the people but as the ONLY rights that government has.

 

Amen.........................

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Re: End the filibuster?

I believe the problem is complacency.

The American people are complacent in the current state of the country. People complain and gripe about there particular pet peeve issue or whatever party they call theirs. When it comes down to it, they are only concerned with that issue. Complain that healthcare is unConstitutional but say nothing about bank bail outs. Both are unConstitutional but one further the aganda of a party so nothing is said about it. For the sake of parity, the other side will complain about it being unconsitutional to not allow same sex marriage but never bring the fact that marriage being recognized by the government is unconstitutional.

I see it as a flaw in the system but I have no real solution to remedy it except hard times...maybe.

The system is designed around everyone caring about the guidelines of the Constitution.

Congress should pass law that are Constitutional.

They are reviewed by the President and if they AREN'T Constitutional he is obligated to veto them.

In light of that, then if a citizen (must be deemed an interested party) has a question of the Constitutionality, it can be taken to SCOTUS. A long a drawn out (expensive) process.

So as long a law benefits people no one ever complains and it remains, Constitutional or not.

Then many years later when a problem arises, no one wants to change the law, because that's the way it's always been and it's worked well till now.

 

 

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"There is nothing more permanent than a "temporary" government program"
"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one...."
-- James Madison, letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792

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Re: End the filibuster?

Well said, Boan. It's the truth and it's also WHY an oath is taken. Swearing to uphold the constitution, then doing just the opposite is grounds for impeachment.

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